hello again friends!.
well it was time again for me to take my weekly dose of apostate faeces and see what it tastes like.
decided to check out randy watters this time (we all love him here) and his little testimony on freeminds.org, titled "what happened at bethel in 1980?
Dear Stillinthetruth,
Your post displays the kind of cocky attitude that is often found
among those who know very little about a matter. Believe whatever
you want, its all a matter of faith anyway. 3 or 4 generations from
now someone in your family will figure it all out. The price of self delusion
and arrogance.
Lee
well friends it came tonight at the thursday meeting, a new video "no blood medicine meets the challenge".
it has prepared case histories and testimony of several in the medical field show that no blood is good medicine.
it is to be distributed to newly interested ones and to those in the medical profession it has been especially prepared for the non-witness viewing public.
Most of us appreciate that the WTS' propaganda machine is well oiled
and capable of producing voluminous amounts of material that is quite
capable of impressing those who do not command a knowledge of the
facts.
Although I would like to see the policy quickly dispensed with, I have
never felt that was particularly practical although some members of
AJWRB disagree with me.
Ultimately, the WTS will disgard the policy when they perceive that they
have no other choice. We cannot make policy for the Watchtower. However,
we educate the public, the medical community and the Jehovah's Witness
community regarding the policy. This information creates pressure on
the WTS to try and defend their position. Recent articles in the Journal
of Medical Ethics, the British Medical Journal (and the resulting debates)
have demonstrated that they cannot win this debate on a level playing
field. I look forward to seeing the video as does Dr. Muramoto and other
medical professionals.
With the changes instituted by the Watchtower in June of 2000, any argument
that Jehovah's Witnesses "abstain" from blood is ludricrous. The availability
of hemoglobin solutions and their use by Jehovah's Witnesses will save
thousands of lives. Based on the published comments of Hospital Information
Services in 1998 it seems probably that AJWRB's work played a significant
role in the WTS decision to permit hemoglobin solutions. 1
There will still be many JW's, particularly children, who will suffer and die
prematurely as of a result of the ban on platelets. This is the WTS' achille's
heel.
1 As recently as 1998 two officials from the Watchtower Society’s
“Hospital Information Services” wrote that Jehovah's Witnesses
“do not accept hemoglobin which is a major part of red blood cells
.... Jehovah’s Witnesses do not accept a blood substitute which
uses hemoglobin taken from a human or animal source."
Bailey R, Ariga T. The view of Jehovah's Witnesses on blood
substitutes. Artif Cells Blood Substit Immobil Biotechnol 1998;26:571-576.
the following information was obtained from skip higgins who is a distant.
relative of c.j.
woodworth.
The following information was obtained from Skip Higgins who is a distant
relative of C.J. Woodworth. Skip is a non JW who was researching his family
tree when he contacted me in April of 2001. Skip's great grandfather was
C.J. Woodworth's brother. I've edited some of the email I've received from
skip and it is presented below. I didn't have time to reduce the photos but
I will post them later.
Hello. I am interested in contacting someone within your group who
might know something of the family of Clayton James Woodworth. I believe
he might have been involved with the productions of some of the
publications of the Watchtower Society. I believe he died in the Cleveland area
in 1987(Note: This would be the son) . He was a first cousin of my grandmother,
and I would be interested to know if he had any family.
Thank you, Skip Higgins
Thanks for answering my question. Clayton James Woodworth, the father,
was born in 1870, and my records show that he died on Nov 18, 1951 on Staten
Island, NY. His son, Clayton James Woodworth, born 1906 and died in 1987
is the one that I thought was involved with your church. Perhaps I'm wrong,
and the father is the one that you can help me with. The father is the
younger brother of my great grandfather, and as there were 10 children in
this family, they scattered far and wide. Thanks in advance for any
information that you can give me about the person and his family.
Two photos are attached. In the group photo, I believe Clayton (C.J Woodworth)
is at the far right, front row.
By the way, you might be interested in knowing that his two wives were
sisters, Mary Emma Arthur and Sophronia C. Arthur. I don't know their
parents names.
For Clayton James Woodworth, Jr., my notes say that his last known address
was the Watchtower Society, Lakewood, OH.
Clayton James Woodworth was the 10th of 15 children born to Charles
Roswell Woodworth and his wife Elizabeth Hannah "Libbie" Bennett. Of this
15, 5 died in childhood and 10 grew to adulthood. Clayton was born in
North Pitcher, NY, where Libbie's parents lived. They were there for a few
years after the Civil War as Charles adjusted to the loss of his left arm in
the Civil War. He received a minnie ball in his left hand in the Battle of
the Wilderness, and they had to remove most of his left arm as a result.
Eventually, this family moved back to Nunda, Livingston Co., NY where
Clayton grew up. Charles started a knife factory in Nunda, known as the
Woodworth Knife Works, which survived until the 1930's. My great
grandfather, Fred Woodworth, Clayton's older brother, was my great
grandfather and he ran the company until it went out of business.
My records show that Clayton was married twice, with one child by each
marriage. I have only sketchy information on each of these children, and my
point in contacting you was to ask if you might have more. I'm going to
send this note to Mr. Raines, and ask him if his research on Mr. Woodworth
would include any family information.
I have a childhood picture of Clayton, and a picture of him as a young man,
and these pictures very much resemble the picture on Mr. Raines' website.
So, I think we're talking about the same guy. Gee, I never would have
guessed that such a close relative could be involved in such a bizarre
situation.
> Ken Raines has written extensively about CJ Woodworth:
>
> http://www.premier1.net/~raines/woodworth.html
>
Comments from Lee:
CJ Woodworth is a central figure in the development of the WTS blood policy.
As others have noted, the concern over "purity" played a very significant role
in the development of Watchtower policy.
Ken Raines analysis of the life of C.J. Woodworth has an evangelical bias.
I believe that C.J Woodworth can best be understood by an evaluation of his
family background and in light of what psychologists would recognize as a
dissociative disorder. Clearly, he was intoxicated with religion, unbalanced and
suffering from extreme anxiety. The obsession with purity, so often seen in a
religious context, is so intense that I would imagine he probably suffered
from OCD (Obsessive Compulsive Disorder) or some related condition.
My guess is that much of his energy was spent in discerning how to keep
clean in order to block out the high level of anxiety he was experiencing as
a result of his inability to block out intrusive thoughts. The magical thinking and
distorted belief systems that individuals generate to survive in these situations
is simply unbelievable to those who have not studied or experienced it.
What is troubling and unfortunate is that someone who was clearly mentally
ill rose to a position of power and influence. Then again, history is full of
comparable examples and my own experience as a JW exposed me to similar
situations Involving elders and circuit overseers who were very troubled
individuals.
i received a press release today from hemopure and also viewed an.
ap article that also reported on the approval of hemopure for use.
in humans in the country of south africa.. in very short order, jehovah's witnesses in south africa will begin.
I received a Press Release today from HemoPure and also viewed an
AP article that also reported on the approval of HemoPure for use
in humans in the country of South Africa.
In very short order, Jehovah's Witnesses in South Africa will begin
using this form of highly purified cow's blood.
BioPure will apply for final FDA approval later this year in the U.S.
This product, if widely accepted by the JW community will save
hundreds of lives each year.
This is a very promising development.
Lee
i found some interesting statistics, some of which you may know, that indicate that the wtbts is in decline.. 1. in the twenty years from 1970 to 1990, the rate of yearly increase dropped from 10% to 6%.
in the last 10 years it has dropped from 6% to about 2%.
since the world population growth is about 1.5% they are only growing at about 1/2 of 1% faster than the population.. 2. in 1999, there were 21 large countries that showed a decline.
The WTS is experiencing hard times and I suspect that things will get worse.
They have shown great resiliency in the past, however, and I wouldn't be
at all surprised to see the organization make some changes in coming years
and rebound.
Lee
i believe the bmj debate on the blood issue is nearing an.
end.
what will probably be my last post was added to the.
I believe the BMJ debate on the blood issue is nearing an
end. What will probably be my last post was added to the
electronic responses this morning. I'm actually a bit
surprised that they published it because I went after
Furuli in a not so subtle way. Apparently Sam was correct -
the Brits like some humor in their debates. Here's the post:
I must tip my hat to Rolf Furuli for he has done a great service for all dissident Jehovah's Witnesses(JWs) who conscientiously reject the Watchtower Society (WTS) blood policy.
By coming into a public forum and failing to address the core issues raised by dissident JWs, Furuli has demonstrated at least three things:
1. Neither Furuli nor the WTS can answer the simple questions we have raised.
2. It is fitting and proper for Jehovah's Witnesses to discuss this policy outside of the organization.
3. Physicians who ask JWs simple questions about the policy will find they are stumped and may reevaluate their position.
Furuli has helped create a historical record that will serve the Associated Jehovah's Witnesses for Reform on Blood (AJWRB) very well since the record clearly shows that even very experienced JW elders who are HLC (Hospital Liaison Committee) members (like Furuli) cannot answer simple questions about a policy they expect other JWs to die for if necessary.
What great irony is to be found when Furuli chides Muramoto by saying: "…he (Muramoto) believes in the unverified claims of a small group of dissenters (who will not even disclose their identity), claims which for the most part are rejected as exaggerated or false by experienced witnesses as myself."
Yes, claims which Furuli refuses to address despite being asked to do so on at least four occasions. Where has Furuli shown that claims made by AJWRB are false? Where is the logical basis for calling our claims "exaggerated?" Once again we're treated to another round of Furuli's logical fallacies.
I dare say that Furuli's lack of response to the issues will answer any remaining questions in the minds of physicians regarding the lack of autonomy of their JW patients. With Furuli and the WTS, it's their way or the highway.
Why should Furuli bother with something incidental like respect for the conscience of the individual or medical confidentiality? Pesky JWs who ask too many questions before they let their child bleed to death can just leave as far as Furuli is concerned. Actually, he would really prefer that they just identify themselves so that he can disfellowship them for not agreeing with him about what blood (haima) is this week. Lest we forget, he may once again change his mind next week and six million JWs will have to fall in line with the latest definition or face shunning and destruction by God.
Thank you Rolf Furuli - I nominate you for AJWRB "reformer of the year" for perfectly demonstrating how totally bizarre and undefensible the WTS blood policies have come to be.
Link to BMJ article and electronic responses:
following is a slightly improved version of something i posted onto various web site forums a few months ago.
i hope it helps those working so hard on this subject.
what is revealed about the societys motivations regarding reporting (or not) of child abuse to secular authorities?
Let me interject a couple of thoughts here.
1. Friend is entitled to whatever views and opinions he chooses
to hold. If he wants to stay in the WTS as an active elder/JW and
work for positive change, I salute him. I did it for as long as I
could. He is a stronger man than I.
2. Without individuals like "Friend" who are willing to work
on the blood and child abuse issues from inside the reform process
takes much longer. More children suffer and more children die - of
that I am certain.
Lee
P.S. We need more moderates in both the current and ex JW community.
so, who is the society's stooge here?.
it goes without saying that the society uses stooges (i.e.
plants) on the web.
I personally don't believe that its quite that simple. I know from
my experience in AJWRB that we have members from very different
backgrounds and perspectives. Some of these are "loyal" Jehovah's Witnesses to the core except that they sincerely believe a mistake
has been made on the blood doctrine. Others are former JWs who dislike
the WTS a great deal. Most are somewhere in between.
As I look back on my experiences with the WTS over the last four decades its a very mixed picture. I'm inactive now with minimal attachment, but I try very hard to be objective about my experience. I don't have any agenda to escort anyone out of the Watchtower nor do
I try to convince anyone to stay.
I sincerely believe that Jehovah's Witnesses, more than anything else, need solid, objective information that they can analyze and use to put
their WT experience into perspective. What they do with that information is entirely up to them.
For JWs making such an examination of their beliefs, I believe the most helpful thing we can do is be supportive of their choice, even if
it is a choice that we would not make ourselves.
Some of those individuals are going to float into forums like this and
express their own unique views. I see this as a constructive thing since the WT really needs to show more respect for the individual views of its members. Amidst all of this diversity could we find a
a plant or WT stooge? Perhaps, but even then its just one more voice
for each of us to evaluate. In the end, most of these voices are just
lost souls trying to make some sense out of their lives.
Lee
the january 6, 2001 issue of the british medical journal published.
an article detailing recent changes in the watchtower society's blood.
policy.. the article has led to a lively and fascinating discussion of the.
The disassociation procedure now being quietly used in connection with
blood use is pretty unclear.
Firstly, I don't believe that even a majority of elders understand
the procedure which works something like this:
1. The elders become aware that a cong. member has accepted whole blood or a forbidden blood component.
2. A judicial committee is formed to investigate the charges and determine if they are true.
3. If they are true the committee assesses whether or not the person is repentant.
4. An announcement is made to the congregation that
a. a matter involving so and so has been handled (if it
is widely known about)and the person has been reproved, adjusted, etc.
b. The person has DA themselves.
The other option here is to handle the matter privately assuming the
person is "repentent" and no one knows.
If the person who accepts blood or a forbidden component is turned in
by a JW healthcare worker we have a real can of worms. There is a post
to BMJ regarding a situation where this happened recently. There is potential for civil and criminal penalties.
This entire process has turned into a quagmire from which the WTS needs to extricate itself.
Lee
the january 6, 2001 issue of the british medical journal published.
an article detailing recent changes in the watchtower society's blood.
policy.. the article has led to a lively and fascinating discussion of the.
The January 6, 2001 issue of the British Medical Journal published
an article detailing recent changes in the Watchtower Society's blood
policy.
The article has led to a lively and fascinating discussion of the
blood doctrine by many Jehovah's Witnesses including elders, H.L.C.
members, physicians and academics.
Most witnesses will find that these discussions touch on aspects of the policy that they have not previously considered, especially from
the standpoint of bioethics. Very thought provoking and definitely
worth the time to read in my view.
Here is the link to the article: http://www.bmj.com/cgi/content/full/322/7277/37
Best regards,
Lee
